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Post by bamapilot on Apr 21, 2013 9:24:11 GMT -7
In pat's defense, I think it is difficult for relativists to understand absolutists and vice versa. “Philosophy” means “love of wisdom”. The Abrahamic religions believe that the downfall of man was the result of his partaking of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The basis of that world view is “do what you are told, and avoid wisdom.” Avoid wisdom? Thats not what my God tells me: James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.
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Post by jiminix on Apr 21, 2013 11:11:07 GMT -7
“Philosophy” means “love of wisdom”. The Abrahamic religions believe that the downfall of man was the result of his partaking of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The basis of that world view is “do what you are told, and avoid wisdom.” Avoid wisdom? Thats not what my God tells me: James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. But to the Bible, what is wisdom? "Of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."In fact, through much of the last 2000 years, Christianity encouraged science, and an understanding of man, nature, and history. Even Copernicus, during his lifetime in the 1400s, was encouraged by the Church to publish his work in astronomy. But a hundred years later, the Church had begun to worry that people were thinking too much for themselves, and forced Galileo to renounce his support of Copernicus's idea of the earth going around the sun. There can be no denying that Christians are the primary source of resistance to objective and rational study of the world. Most of the home-school movement is motivated by a desire of Christian parents to shield their children from an objective view of the world.
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Post by bamapilot on Apr 21, 2013 15:10:00 GMT -7
But to the Bible, what is wisdom? I always liked this short version from the Bible Encyclopedia. Its not everything, but covers the question a bit: Wisdom: "The Biblical sense of wisdom lays emphasis on sound judgment, based on knowledge and understanding; the ability to use knowledge and understanding successfully to solve problems, avoid or avert dangers, attain certain goals, or counsel others in doing so. It is the opposite of foolishness, stupidity, and madness, with which it is often contrasted. De 32:6; Pr 11:29; Ec 6:8. "The basic terms signifying wisdom are the Hebrew chokh·mah′ (verb, cha·kham′) and the Greek so·phi′a, with their related forms. Also, there are the Hebrew tu·shi·yah′, which may be rendered “effectual working” or “practical wisdom,” and the Greek phro′ni·mos and phro′ne·sis (from phren, the “mind”), relating to “sensibleness,” “discretion,” or “practical wisdom.” "Wisdom implies a breadth of knowledge and a depth of understanding, these giving the soundness and clarity of judgment characteristic of wisdom. The wise man ‘treasures up knowledge,’ has a fund of it to draw upon. (Pr 10:14) While “wisdom is the prime thing,” the counsel is that “with all that you acquire, acquire understanding.” (Pr 4:5-7) Understanding (a broad term that frequently embraces discernment) adds strength to wisdom, contributing greatly to discretion and foresight, also notable characteristics of wisdom. Discretion implies prudence and may be expressed in caution, self-control, moderation, or restraint. "The “discreet [form of phro′ni·mos] man” builds his house on a rock-mass, foreseeing the possibility of storm; the foolish man builds his on sand and suffers disaster. Mt 7:24-27."
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Post by keystroker on Apr 22, 2013 18:19:17 GMT -7
That doesn't quite ring true. There's no one in the American political fray who's saying that. Maybe Stalin said it, but I think today even in Russia, no politician could get away with with it. They definitely are set in their ways. But the “ignorant” label, I think, isn't appropriate – I don’t call someone ignorant simply because of believing in a religion. And as far as freedom is concerned, I do not become more free because people who disagree with me are eliminated. I become more free if someone oppressing me stops the oppression. Social progress has always been largely a matter of the spread of tolerance. The old order, set in its ways, clings to its intolerance and fights viciously against any reduction of it. There a lot of rhetoric nowadays from the Christian right wing claiming that Christians have become a persecuted minority. In reality, for centuries they have been accustomed to imposing their will and their beliefs on others. Now, when any real minority manages to get enough allies that they can finally get some relief from traditional oppression, the Christians scream that their religious freedom is being taken away. But all they are really losing is their prerogative to persecute others with impunity; they are being called to answer for their unjust traditions, and they don't like it. The truth is, the rest of the world doesn’t care if some group is set in their ways. As long as they don’t impose a cost on others, the others don’t care. But they will not be allowed to stand in the way of social progress - no one is entitled to that, regardless of what their religion tells them. I was just testing you, to see if you wanted to go out hunting dittoheads or anything.
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