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Post by hoofie on May 17, 2017 4:59:16 GMT -7
Where did this come from? Please explain, since I am a registered independent.
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Post by osha on May 17, 2017 5:23:57 GMT -7
Where did this come from? Please explain, since I am a registered independent. I was agreeing with snakebit about evangelicals and welfare. Nothing was directed at you and sorry if that was a misunderstanding.
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Post by hoofie on May 17, 2017 7:50:16 GMT -7
The quote didn't come though. I took nothing personal, I wanted to know the nature of your quote.
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Post by osha on May 17, 2017 8:21:30 GMT -7
The quote didn't come though. I took nothing personal, I wanted to know the nature of your quote. Evangelicals largely support the right. That is proven as the right is always looking for their support. The right would like to gut programs that help others and that is also known. So the right wing ideology is propelled by the church since that is the rights group and largely who votes for the right. I am very, very, very much anti church. And the reason for this is Jesus believed very much in loving others. He also believed in taking care of our brothers and sisters. But the right uses their vote to hurt others. I get the idea of less government and such, but I would not wish for less to give the struggling less. I am centrist and I do want the government to leave me the heck alone but at the same time, I want people who suffer to get the help they need. And what snakebit was saying is right. The people vote against their interest all while the right would give huge tax breaks to the rich and cut programs that help the people that need them. So the church ideology of today is to take from those who need help and give to those who don't. In my mind that paints a clear picture of a hypocrite. I know not all Christians do this and I know they don't all vote like that. But to many do. And Christianity as a brand suffers for it. Sorry, when we claim a title we have to live with the title. If the title you carry largely hurts others then that title has an issue.
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Post by hoofie on May 17, 2017 11:10:45 GMT -7
Have you ever seen program cuts, for the sake of cuts? Eliminating waste and fraud are a part of cuts. Eliminating programs that duplicate costs is a cut. Cutting taxes to stimulate growth is progressive, not regressive. You enjoy your tax dollars being wasted on fraud and bureaucrats?
Name a program that 'The Right' has cut, just to hurt people.
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Post by John Doe on May 17, 2017 14:56:34 GMT -7
just look at a few of the politicians who cut for the sake of hurting others and brag about it to the media and even sing and laugh while doing it.
Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnel, Rick Perry, just to name a few high profile ones.
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Post by hoofie on May 17, 2017 15:54:07 GMT -7
just look at a few of the politicians who cut for the sake of hurting others and brag about it to the media and even sing and laugh while doing it. Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnel, Rick Perry, just to name a few high profile ones. There is no proof of your claim. Where did you get this? ".............sake of hurting others and brag about it to the media and even sing and laugh while doing it."
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Post by osha on May 17, 2017 17:39:29 GMT -7
Google can be a good source of information here. I tried to make a post with links, but the internet failed here in my land.
Anyways, the GOP fueled by the church has historically supported cuts across the board for those who need help to funnel the money to the rich. Rob Peter to pay Paul type thing.
This is well documented. Doesn't seem like good little Christian stewardship to me.
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Post by osha on May 17, 2017 19:06:28 GMT -7
I was talking to a republican friend the other day. Of course he is anti abortion. And although he may not use religious reasons as the basis for his views, I stopped him dead in his tracks and he was forced to agree with me.
So the right and Christians love to run around and dictate the lives of women. They would love nothing more then to force women to have children even if they were raped. After all, a rape is not the fault of the fetus.
Let me explain the hypocrisy in this.
Women never take abortion lightly. I have known some women whom have made the choice to do such a thing. And it always came with much thinking and many times with tears.
Now, the church and the right wants to force hardship on another human without taking any responsibility for the hardship they create. Sure, we can have the moral argument about how people enjoy spending their time "don't do something with an expected outcome you might not want", sure, I agree, but I have no right to force others to conform to my ideas.
Anyways, force children to be born into a world with a childcare system that is already overburdened. Many kids are being put into places because there is nowhere else to put them (I was one of those kids but that is another story). Then, the right would love to cut programs that support that family they just forced into creation. So, somehow your morals are okay with forcing hardship but taking no responsibility for the hardship you create.
You care about the fetus and have no care in the world for that fetus when it turns into an adult. And what about these kids who are juggled through the system from one unfortunate circumstance to another and next thing you know they grow into adults with mental issues and then you don't support taking care of them when they are adults, they are bums.
And believe me, I know because I am the child I am explaining and guess what? I am disabled and programs that help me are constantly being threatened. Did I choose to have a very screwed up life? Surely not, but somehow the right would like to punish me. This makes no sense.
Now, how is it right in any way to force a hardship on a would be parent and possibly on the child and claim no responsibility for what you as a party and church creates? Some Christian may very well come across this post and think "my church helps the poor", well bravo, but your church or every church in this nation could not solve childhood poverty. And you sure couldn't support all these people the system creates when then these people grow up into messed up adults.
I'm very lucky. I am bipolar but not in a way that makes me strange in any real way. As long as I keep my brain busy learning I keep myself in check. I am also socially awkward because I have severe trust issues and I don't do well with authority. At my last job I chased a man out the store because he called me an idiot, I blacked out and don't remember the event much. But I guess it was pretty bad. I am disabled and would nothing more then to be something that I am not but it is what it is.
This really gives me a unique perspective into this very issue. We either take responsibility as a nation for what we create, or we simply don't create it. As I have said, on a personal level I am very much against abortion. But on a logical level it sometimes simply beats the alternative. Freedom
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Post by hoofie on May 18, 2017 4:50:18 GMT -7
Google can be a good source of information here. I tried to make a post with links, but the internet failed here in my land. Anyways, the GOP fueled by the church has historically supported cuts across the board for those who need help to funnel the money to the rich. Rob Peter to pay Paul type thing. This is well documented. Doesn't seem like good little Christian stewardship to me. This only appears in searches as a left wing talking point. No one can offer any proof of this actually happening. Can you point to any actual legislation where this has occurred?
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Post by osha on May 18, 2017 5:04:16 GMT -7
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Post by hoofie on May 18, 2017 5:34:16 GMT -7
:\"Proposed", and "passed", as far as legislation is concerned, are inclusive. Show me a program cut, because the Christians want it and they hate the poor and disabled. You continue to hammer the right with things that never happen. In none of those links, did the legislation state that it is proposed because the Christians want it. Nor is the proposal due to hatred of the poor, disabled and elderly. You are projecting your opinion, which is your right to state it that way, as to the motivation of an entire group of people you don't know. (Christians, 'right wingers'). All of this drive by commentary is dividing this nation. We can no longer disagree without attaching a label to it. I'm going out on a limb and assume that you know what "passed legislation" means.
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Post by osha on May 18, 2017 5:50:13 GMT -7
I know what that all mean.
Christians vote largely for the right. You do know this right?
The right "wants" and I have said such. The Christians vote for what their party "wants". Don't we all? Both parties are guilty of talking about "wants" while rarely making those "wants" a reality. This does not mean however that each party does not truly "want" what they go on about.
So legislation is usually the outcome of a "want". Our government works at a snails pace but eventually these "wants" become reality.
For instance, which party was guilty of removing the good provisions from the ACA? The GOP of course. In negotiations with the GOP, the GOP pulled the left to the right. That's how it works always. When they are making deals the offering party has to approach the other party for a "deal".
If you would like to see where much of the pain for the poor and elderly comes from in this country, look at budget "deals" and other types of "deals". Most of these things don't come as direct legislation, instead they are hidden in "deals".
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Post by hoofie on May 18, 2017 8:57:47 GMT -7
This thread is a perfect example of what is going on in Washington and the mainstream media. Both sides are stating their opinions and projecting it as true, rather than reporting or stating the facts. Every time the word gets passed forward it gets another opinion melded into it to the point they believe it's true.
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Post by osha on May 18, 2017 9:43:58 GMT -7
This thread is a perfect example of what is going on in Washington and the mainstream media. Both sides are stating their opinions and projecting it as true, rather than reporting or stating the facts. Every time the word gets passed forward it gets another opinion melded into it to the point they believe it's true. So you believe somehow that no one is saying anything true? You have been under a rock apparently. The right did kill the good things about the ACA and things always get put into existing bills during the deal process, it always happens. I don't know where you think facts are located because such things are know. I don't really think you understand how the government works.
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