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Post by snakebit on May 18, 2017 15:48:40 GMT -7
There's nothing to debate about their motivations for secession. They put it right in their declarations of secession, just as our Declaration of Independence specified our reasons for separating from England. The documents were very up front about the fact that they were leaving in order to preserve their institution of slavery. Go read them if you believe otherwise; most of them are short. YOU might want to "read them" and make additional efforts to understand what they say. I'll help you. There were only five "declarations" out of 11 Confederate States, and Virginia's says nothing. The South Carolina document dealt with economic issues and state's rights, not slavery. So, these four documents created by a handful of firebrands speak to the motivation of five million souls in the Confederacy? Here's the content breakdown in the four declarations Only 6% of Southerners were slave owners and of these 5% owned five or fewer and worked beside them in the fields. Are you actually postulating that the motivation of the remaining 94% of Southerners was slavery? CITATION NEEDED!
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Post by Entimos on May 19, 2017 16:20:57 GMT -7
That superiority and the predominance of religion in the South probably explains why the Southerners went on to lead the greatest democracy in the world to a position of world supremacy while the Northern states became a minor region known for extremist Evangelical piety, ignorance, poverty and bigotry. The superiority of your ancestors probably also explains why the Northern states still need welfare/transfer payments from the Southern states to avoid becoming third world like hell holes. Oh, wait, That seems backward. Entiomo, forget Lincoln and your ancestors who got their asses whipped by him (and by my ancestors). The inbred bigots xian evangelicals in the South in the modern era fought tooth and nail against desegregation which had to be forced on them by the civilized people and actual Christians of the North. Who still favors slavery or at least many of its bigoted beliefs and who doesn't? Ever notice WHO those welfare payments go to in the South? That mighty Godless, liberal Northern horde created that mess, not us. And who do the "transfer" payments go to? Veterans and retirees who hated the North as much as we do. As far as those supposedly "civilized people and actual Christians of the North", let this Southern Christian conservative straighten that out: "At the same time, an open secret haunted America’s northern states. As the nation gazed at southern whites’ resistance to the civil rights movement—at the Klansmen and demagogues, attack dogs and cattle prods— many recoiled in horror. Northerners told themselves that such scenes emanated from a backward land, a dying region, a place apart. Yet rampant segregation in cities across the country rendered racial inequality a national trait more than a southern aberration. When black migrants streamed north during and after World War Two, James Baldwin reflected, “they do not escape Jim Crow: they merely encounter another, not-less-deadly variety.” They moved not to New York, but to Harlem and Bedford-Stuyvesant; not to Chicago, but to the South Side; not to Boston, but to Lower Roxbury.
To scholars, however, the North as a land of liberty has become a straw man. No reflective historian any longer believes it. Scholars have focused on the North’s dark side. They have shown slavery’s deep roots in New England and New York City. Histories of twentieth-century America reveal the North’s bloody record of racial violence, and its stunningly segregated landscape of affluent white suburbs and destitute brown cities. In recent works of history, the North and the South emerge as rough racial equivalents: the South had Mississippi; the North had the Boston busing crisis. If the progressive side of the North enters into these stories, it is depicted as a rhetorical mask that hides the reality of racism."
www.salon.com/2014/12/14/the_north_isnt_better_than_the_south_the_real_history_of_modern_racism_and_segregation_above_the_mason_dixon_line/In Lincoln, your ancestors followed and fought for a tyrant, racist and murderer. Yet, his statues and memorials still stand unmolested as a testament to liberal and Northern hypocrisy and political correctness. Like I said before, my heroes and ancestors in gray were and always will be far better men than Lincoln and his Northern mob will ever be. I stand by that and I will defend it with facts like the ones above. BTW, as far as Southerners getting their "asses whipped" as you put it, some 360,000 dead Yankees might have disagreed. The South lost because of the lack of manpower and materials, not because they were wrong.
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Post by Entimos on May 19, 2017 16:26:21 GMT -7
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Post by snakebit on May 22, 2017 11:46:21 GMT -7
That superiority and the predominance of religion in the South probably explains why the Southerners went on to lead the greatest democracy in the world to a position of world supremacy while the Northern states became a minor region known for extremist Evangelical piety, ignorance, poverty and bigotry. The superiority of your ancestors probably also explains why the Northern states still need welfare/transfer payments from the Southern states to avoid becoming third world like hell holes. Oh, wait, That seems backward. Entiomo, forget Lincoln and your ancestors who got their asses whipped by him (and by my ancestors). The inbred bigots xian evangelicals in the South in the modern era fought tooth and nail against desegregation which had to be forced on them by the civilized people and actual Christians of the North. Who still favors slavery or at least many of its bigoted beliefs and who doesn't? Ever notice WHO those welfare payments go to in the South? That mighty Godless, liberal Northern horde created that mess, not us. And who do the "transfer" payments go to? Veterans and retirees who hated the North as much as we do. As far as those supposedly "civilized people and actual Christians of the North", let this Southern Christian conservative straighten that out: "At the same time, an open secret haunted America’s northern states. As the nation gazed at southern whites’ resistance to the civil rights movement—at the Klansmen and demagogues, attack dogs and cattle prods— many recoiled in horror. Northerners told themselves that such scenes emanated from a backward land, a dying region, a place apart. Yet rampant segregation in cities across the country rendered racial inequality a national trait more than a southern aberration. When black migrants streamed north during and after World War Two, James Baldwin reflected, “they do not escape Jim Crow: they merely encounter another, not-less-deadly variety.” They moved not to New York, but to Harlem and Bedford-Stuyvesant; not to Chicago, but to the South Side; not to Boston, but to Lower Roxbury.
To scholars, however, the North as a land of liberty has become a straw man. No reflective historian any longer believes it. Scholars have focused on the North’s dark side. They have shown slavery’s deep roots in New England and New York City. Histories of twentieth-century America reveal the North’s bloody record of racial violence, and its stunningly segregated landscape of affluent white suburbs and destitute brown cities. In recent works of history, the North and the South emerge as rough racial equivalents: the South had Mississippi; the North had the Boston busing crisis. If the progressive side of the North enters into these stories, it is depicted as a rhetorical mask that hides the reality of racism."
www.salon.com/2014/12/14/the_north_isnt_better_than_the_south_the_real_history_of_modern_racism_and_segregation_above_the_mason_dixon_line/In Lincoln, your ancestors followed and fought for a tyrant, racist and murderer. Yet, his statues and memorials still stand unmolested as a testament to liberal and Northern hypocrisy and political correctness. Right out of the KKK playbook.
I'd ask for a citation but we know this crap is written by cowards who protect their anonymity by hiding under White robes. Like I said before, my heroes and ancestors in gray were and always will be far better men than Lincoln and his Northern mob will ever be. I stand by that and I will defend it with facts like the ones above. BTW, as far as Southerners getting their "asses whipped" as you put it, some 360,000 dead Yankees might have disagreed. The South lost because of the lack of manpower and materials, not because they were wrong. Lack of materials was a result of the South being a backward society that didn't have the intelligence, the education or the work ethic to keep up with the industrial revolution. That is a reason for the ass whipping, not an excuse.
Plus, of course, it just could be that the Christian God was on the side of those with a just cause.You could be right about racism in the North entimos,the horrible racism in the North would certainly explain the mass historical migrations of free Blacks from the North to the South.
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Post by snakebit on May 22, 2017 11:51:40 GMT -7
Thanks for the citation. If you read the comments you'll find that the silly graphs are well debunked. For example-
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Post by JMHO on May 22, 2017 15:51:50 GMT -7
Yes, we have a sketchy past and it is just that, a past. Trying to erase the past does not undo the things that were done in the past. We are always going to have people who feel their race is supreme and this can go be added to the ever growing list of things that separate us and contributes to what is the sickness of this country. The moral of all this is, we need to work on hate at our core and that is something I believe is a much tougher endeavor. Agreed. Auschwitz and other concentration camps stand in Germany as a museum and reminder of their past. The statues removed in New Orleans and elsewhere cannot be hidden far enough away for us to escape the very real past. Running is futile; that's what this emotionally-charged outbreak of removing historically significant Confederate statues feels like.
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Post by ranger06 on May 22, 2017 17:24:32 GMT -7
Agreed. Auschwitz and other concentration camps stand in Germany as a museum and reminder of their past. The statues removed in New Orleans and elsewhere cannot be hidden far enough away for us to escape the very real past. Running is futile; that's what this emotionally-charged outbreak of removing historically significant Confederate statues feels like. Ouch! A minor correction. Auschwitz is in Poland. However, Dachau is in Germany and just a bit north of Munich. Been there twice. What was encouraging was to watch the school buses come in. The Germans weren't hiding it. The Poles aren't either.
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Post by JMHO on May 23, 2017 6:54:54 GMT -7
Agreed. Auschwitz and other concentration camps stand in Germany as a museum and reminder of their past. The statues removed in New Orleans and elsewhere cannot be hidden far enough away for us to escape the very real past. Running is futile; that's what this emotionally-charged outbreak of removing historically significant Confederate statues feels like. Ouch! A minor correction. Auschwitz is in Poland. However, Dachau is in Germany and just a bit north of Munich. Been there twice. What was encouraging was to watch the school buses come in. The Germans weren't hiding it. The Poles aren't either. My immense apologies, Ranger. Never would I disrespect the historical significance of the concentration camps nor its victims and their families. Thank you for correcting me.
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Post by Entimos on May 24, 2017 9:53:06 GMT -7
Thanks for the citation. If you read the comments you'll find that the silly graphs are well debunked. For example- The graphs were created by the Civil War Trust, and the comments debunked nothing. The nasty little author of that "editorial" offers nothing to back up his proclamation that there was an "absence of any other causes". Neither have you.
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Post by Entimos on May 24, 2017 10:20:44 GMT -7
None of that is true at all.
Ever notice that liberals always try to falsely smear their opponents as racist when they have nothing of substance or intelligent to offer? Pathetic.
The South had enough intelligence and work ethic to put 360,000 Yankees under the dirt and hold their own against an immoral bully four times their size for four years....all despite the lack of material and manpower. Pretty impressive. So impressive was the losing effort by our men in grey that the U.S. later named military bases after Confederate generals and the government designated Confederates as American veterans with all the same rights and respect given to Union veterans...at least until the urban zoos like NOLA attempt to rewrite that history with more false liberal smears. The side with the just cause lost that war. But, if you look around today, the perverted and declining state of the U.S. may just be God's punishment against the victors who worshiped the mighty federal government and made it the monster it is today. Are you familiar with history of that so called "migration" at all? I'm trying to help with that, but it takes a receptive student as well. Are you aware that 90% of blacks still lived in the South as of 1910? They didn't migrate North until after 1910. Oops. Wonder why they didn't want to head up to the land of the "Industrial Revolution" during that 45 year span after the WBTS.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Migration_%28African_American%29
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Post by Entimos on May 31, 2017 6:57:55 GMT -7
Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey on Wednesday signed into law sweeping protections for Confederate and other long-standing monuments, a move that comes as some Southern cities remove Confederate monuments from public grounds.
Sen. Gerald Allen, the Republican bill sponsor, praised Ivey's decision.
"Contrary to what its detractors say, the Memorial Preservation Act is intended to preserve all of Alabama's history -- the good and the bad -- so our children and grandchildren can learn from the past to create a better future," Allen said.
The new Alabama law prohibits the removal and alteration of monuments more than 40 years old. It also prohibits renaming schools that have carried a person's name for more than 40 years. A new commission would have to approve changes to those between 20 and 40 years old. www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/05/confederate_monuments_alabama.htmlSummary: Alabama has integrity...states and cities that fail to create such protections have none. I plan to avoid New Orleans and any dying liberal cesspool that goes a PC purge.
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