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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 7:58:34 GMT -7
It's like he said and he said with Trump and Obama.
I do hope Obama can make president for some of the states he is visiting. Since all races of folks want too leave the USA when things do not go their way. I say go where it makes you happy follow the person in office if you like them that much.
Seems that would make any country of all races more productive is having citizens who approve of the way the leader is making progress.
God Bless the USA!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 9:01:09 GMT -7
I see whats going on here.
This forum is trying to push a one sided ideology. If you do not agree with X, then your opinion is wrong and you need to shut up.
An argument I was in about a week or so on this forum proves my point. I got told I was being educated by people in this forum and the truth is, I wasn't. Just because I don't see things in a way that baby boomers see things does not mean I am wrong. And we can play this blame game all day long and have differing opinions and that is fine. But don't treat me like I am uneducated and like I lie and like I am ignorant because I don't think like you do.
We can say $60K a year is middle class when the top earns trillions a year and the bottom earns nothing? Well, call me stupid but the math does not line up and that's old ideology left over from the 60s when a foreman might of made half (read, middle class) of what the owner might have made. And now with owners of companies making 293 times what the average worker makes, that person would have to make about 147 times what they make now to be in the economic middle.
Yhea, I'm so dumb to not think old fashioned. And yep, I need school because I know how to do math.
Be happy with what I have and screw everyone else.... I don't feel this way and I am guilty of compassion.
Off topic I know but we could blame Obama and every president since the dawn of day for everything wrong in this country. And Trump will only be another pawn for the rich so us normal folks can sit around and bicker back and forth and get nothing done. Meanwhile we will kill innocent people in the world, radicalize them, create terrorists, lose our liberties all while the rich buys up everything.
Yep, great world we live in and yay for the future....
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 10:26:50 GMT -7
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Post by ranger06 on Apr 14, 2017 11:16:06 GMT -7
An argument I was in about a week or so on this forum proves my point. I got told I was being educated by people in this forum and the truth is, I wasn't. Just because I don't see things in a way that baby boomers see things does not mean I am wrong. And we can play this blame game all day long and have differing opinions and that is fine. But don't treat me like I am uneducated and like I lie and like I am ignorant because I don't think like you do. We can say $60K a year is middle class when the top earns trillions a year and the bottom earns nothing? Well, call me stupid but the math does not line up and that's old ideology left over from the 60s when a foreman might of made half (read, middle class) of what the owner might have made. And now with owners of companies making 293 times what the average worker makes, that person would have to make about 147 times what they make now to be in the economic middle. Yhea, I'm so dumb to not think old fashioned. And yep, I need school because I know how to do math. You were being educated but as shown by your statement, you didn't learn. The definition and range of the middle class is driven by math, or more specifically, statistics. What you feel, the way baby boomers see things, the way you think, "old ideology" (whatever that means), differing opinions, what a foreman made in the 60's or even your political slant have nothing to do with this. That someone makes "trillions" in immaterial. A review of simple math: To get the average (mean), all the incomes (by individuals or household) are added together and divided by the population. But the median, rather than the mean is used. That is a plot of all the incomes (data points), the income in the exact middle is the median. Foe example, you have 101 data points,. The median is 51 because it is the exact middle - there are 50 of less value and 50 of greater value. The mean and median are rarely the same value. To get the distribution curve, a plot is made with each income plotted along the x-axis, the number who made that level on the y-axis. This will give the normal distribution or bell curve. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_deviationI'm not an economist, but let's assume one standard deviation either side of the median now defines the middle Anything greater is defines the upper and anything the lower classes. Now you can get the income ranges by which class you want. In this analysis, Pew defined middle class households as those earning 67%-200% of a state's median income. For Alabama, household incomes between $28,566 and $85,698 (inclusive) are considered middle class with $42,849 being the median income. (US Census Bureau's 2013 American Community Survey). www.businessinsider.com/middle-class-in-every-us-state-2015-4Of course this didn't consider the size of the household. In 2013 Alabama, $60,000/yr not only is in the middle class, but is also considerably higher than the median income. Now maybe you see why we can't just agree to disagree.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 12:20:15 GMT -7
These are mathematic norms that are used to perpetuate feelings of class.
Again, for example, the owner of a factory in the 1960s only made 70 times the amount of the lowest wage worker (janitor). The foreman made 35 times the lowest wage worker (middle of the income scale). So the foreman was in the economic middle.
Then what happens? The tax rate on the rich falls and the amount the foreman makes slowly separates from the middle. The foreman stays at the income he was at while the owner now makes 100 times his/her lowest wage worker (janitor). And this continues.
Here is my point, in the 1960s there was a middle income that could be earned that placed the foreman as the in fact middle class (middle income). Nowadays, to keep the idea alive, the system has continued to tell everyone that if you make X amount which is nowhere close to the economic middle, you are still middle class. Then the separation starts. We can erase the income of the top earners and use a system that favors the worker. So in a general area, if the highest medial job pays $60K a year, we can say someone making $30K is middle class (just an example) while the guy that owns 5 gas stations in your town makes $500 million a year. Include that guy and your nowhere near the economic middle. As a matter of fact, the guy that owns the 5 gas station has money to build new ones or buy up other ones. All while the person making $30K a year has no hope of doing the same.
That's my argument. You can't say the rich get to be separate from the rest of us while the rich has all the opportunity. the TRUE middle class of the 1960s created opportunity because they had money to do so. The middle class of today does the same but it is not within the old classification of the middle class. The person making $500 million a year is creating opportunity while the person making $60K is living paycheck to paycheck and is one medical emergency away from financial disaster.
We should agree to disagree. Because your never going to see things the way I do and I am never going to submit to old ideology. That's just the way it is.
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Post by ranger06 on Apr 14, 2017 13:09:27 GMT -7
These are mathematic norms that are used to perpetuate feelings of class. We should agree to disagree. Because your never going to see things the way I do and I am never going to submit to old ideology. That's just the way it is. Wow. Don't you even dream of taking an economics class, or a class on anything for that matter. We are not free to define our world just because we get some wild hair to do so. If you wish to discuss a topic you must learn the language to do so. There are no mathematic norms that are used to perpetuate feelings of class. There is a methodology used to define it. Best learn it if you wish to discuss this topic. We can't agree to disagree. What you put out is gibberish. Your so called "old ideology" (whatever that is) proved this point.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 13:16:02 GMT -7
It's fine.
Don't you ever dream of using that matter in between your ears to think for yourself. Go ahead and spew old garbage that the elite loves being pushed down your throat and come back in ten years as the economy has shrunk and tell me all about what your thinking has done for you. And tell me about the new middle class then as well. Interesting!
Perhaps a lesson in philosophy would be a good one for you, it helps promote independent thought.
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Post by ranger06 on Apr 14, 2017 13:35:41 GMT -7
It's not fine. You're peddling falsehoods with no clue of what you write. Worse, you're proud of it. Learn the language of the economy and maybe you'll be taken seriously.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 13:39:40 GMT -7
It's not fine. You're peddling falsehoods with no clue of what you write. Worse, you're proud of it. Learn the language of the economy and maybe you'll be taken seriously. I have a clue and you don't see it. Again, agree to disagree.
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Post by ranger06 on Apr 14, 2017 13:40:59 GMT -7
It's not fine. You're peddling falsehoods with no clue of what you write. Worse, you're proud of it. Learn the language of the economy and maybe you'll be taken seriously. Again, agree to disagree. I agree that you've no clue as to the topic.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 13:42:34 GMT -7
Again, agree to disagree. I agree that you've no clue as to the topic. And I agree that your narrow minded. Whew... We done?
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Post by ranger06 on Apr 14, 2017 13:51:58 GMT -7
I agree that you've no clue as to the topic. Whew... We done? Not when you've been shown proof that $60,000/yr is above the median income in all but 10 states and D.C. but still claim $60K/yr isn't middle class. Even in those exceptions that $60K/yr is still within the lower and upper limits of the middle class.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2017 13:57:53 GMT -7
............................................................................................ ^------^------------------------------^----------------------------------^ Bottom| Claimed middle|-------- Real middle|---------------------Top|
Top is 1 Billion Middle is 500 million Bottom is 0
And somehow 60 is middle?
Again, agree to disagree?
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Post by ranger06 on Apr 14, 2017 14:11:54 GMT -7
............................................................................................ ^------^------------------------------^----------------------------------^ Bottom| Claimed middle|-------- Real middle|---------------------Top| Top is 1 Billion Middle is 500 million Bottom is 0 And somehow 60 is middle? Again, agree to disagree? Learn how to do statistics, then you just might be able to write intelligently on this subject. Until then all you write is garbage.
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Post by ranger06 on Apr 14, 2017 14:12:45 GMT -7
............................................................................................ ^------^------------------------------^----------------------------------^ Bottom| Claimed middle|-------- Real middle|---------------------Top| Top is 1 Billion Middle is 500 million Bottom is 0 And somehow 60 is middle? Again, agree to disagree? Learn how to do statistics, then you just might be able to write intelligently on this subject. Until then all you write is garbage. Can't agree to disagree with ignorance.
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